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    Tradestation vs NinjaTrader: Reviews- Which one is better?

    in Day Trading Blog

    Deciding whether NinjaTrader or Tradestation is better is similar to deciding which kid is your favorite.  You just can’t do that!  These two programs are the only trading platforms that all futures traders use.  These two platforms are the only ones I have been using for my roughly 10 year day trading career.  I share my day trading tips and more about my strategy on my new Day Trading website at http://thedaytradingacademy.com

    If you trade stocks or options then you have different possibilities including the programs that the big brokerages offer.  Big brokerages are much too expensive in comparison to the brokers that are tailor made for the futures market.  This is the reason why most futures day traders and professional day traders use one of these two platforms.

    Choosing between the two has gotten more difficult over the years due to the fact that Ninja Trader is new to the charting realm of trading.   NinjaTrader use to be known as just an execution platform but recently taken a significant dive into charting.

    tradestation, futures charts, tradestation charting

    Picture of a Tradestation Chart

    This bodes well for many traders since Tradestation used to be the only platform that was available.  Competition is always better!  We can look at a few areas of charting to really compare the two platforms:

    • Cost
    • Ease of Use – Charting
    • Ease of Use – Execution
    • Features
    • Customer Service
    • Initial Setup & Installation

    —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

    Cost of NinjaTrader & Tradestation Platforms:

    Tradestation NinjaTrader, Tradestation logo, Ninja Trader, NinjaTraderTradestation is significantly more expensive since you can use Ninja Trader for free when you are practicing or simulating.

    Tradestation costs $125 a month unless you make 10 round trip trades per month out of a live account (1 round trip=you take on a position & then sell it).

    If you are able to make 10 live round trip trades per  month then you only pay a $25 monthly fee for the data feed.  Ninja Trader is completely free to use on simulation.  In order to trade a live account with Ninja Trader you have to buy a license.  Price details are listed below:

    Cost of Tradestation

    • $25 a month with 10 live round trip trades
    • $125 a month using simulation or not having 10 live round trip trades

    Cost of Ninja Trader: Purchase

    • $995 for a 1 broker Lifetime License (option most will choose)
    • $1495 for Multi Broker Lifetime License

    Cost of Ninja Trader: Lease

    • $60 a month ($180 total – 3 month lease)
    • $55 a month ($330 total – 6 month lease)
    • $50 a month ($600 total – 1 year lease)

    Advantage: Ninja Trader (who can argue with free!)

    —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

    Ease of Use – Charting:

    Tradestation use to win this battle big time before the recent release of Ninja Trader 7.  With the new release both platforms are on par with each other aside from some small nuances.  Most old school day traders like myself use Tradestation.

    Most new traders use Ninja Trader since it costs nothing to use until you go live.  I still prefer to use Tradestation for charting since those small nuances to me make a difference in comparison to Ninja Trader.

    Advantage: Either

    —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

    Ease of Use – Execution:

    Ninja matrix, NinjaTrader Matrix

    NinjaTrader Matrix

    There are some major differences in execution between Ninja Trader and Tradestation.  To put it plainly, Ninja Trader is light years ahead of Tradestation.  Ninja Trader has more options and some cool features that the age old Tradestation platform doesn’t have.

    The data feeds that both platforms use are also very different.  I have personally noticed that Trade Station is more sensitive to spikes in volume while Ninja Trader is more sensitive to internet shortages.  When you travel around the world like I do these small differences can cost thousands of dollars.

    When spikes in volume occur Tradestation tends to not be able to catch up with the data where Ninja Trader keeps right up.  When the internet cuts out even for even a millisecond Tradestation for the most part stays connected while Ninja Trader loses its connection almost immediately.

    Ninja Trader’s feed options are much better than Tradestation’s.  Tradestation still uses a very old data connection that was invented ages ago, updates to the feed may or may not have happened recently.  Ninja Trader on the other hand can connect via various data feed providers that are up to date.

    Advantage: Ninja Trader

    —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

    Tradestation & Ninjatrader Features:

    Chart trader, chart trader ninjatrader, ninja trader chart trader

    Chart Trader on NinjaTrader

    When we look at the features of both platforms Ninja Trader has a clear edge.  When learning how to day trade and practicing it’s important to be able to simulate in a live environment.

    What Ninja Trader provides is the ability to download historical data and replay it like its live.  You can now practice how to day trade any time of the week, day or night.

    This is an invaluable tool for both new day traders and those that want to practice.  Most newbies have other responsibilities and having the freedom of time is priceless.

    Another cool feature on Ninja Trader is the chart trader option.  This is where you can visually see all of your stops and targets on your chart rather than just your order matrix.  It brings a whole new visibility to day trading that took charting to a whole new level.

    Advantage: Ninja Trader

    —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

    Customer Service:

    Tradestation offers 24 hour customer service except for the weekends while Ninja Trader only offers email support.  While it can be annoying at times Ninja Trader support has a canny way of answering your question right away.  I have been very surprised to receive emails at 2am from a question I asked.  This does not fix the fact that speaking to someone on the phone is much easier than trying to explain it in words.

    Advantage: Tradestation

    —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

    Initial Setup & Installation:

    While both platforms are easy to use they are equal when it comes to setup and installation.  They both have their quirks and you will need help setting up both of them.  Most times when you buy a strategy or software the company you buy it from will assist with the install.

    I have found that Ninja Trader has more videos and tutorials than Tradestation but I haven’t needed much technical support for Tradestation.  You can’t take my word on that.  I have found that both technical supports have been helpful.

    Advantage: Either

    —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

    Recommendation: Ninja Trader

    One of the biggest reasons most new traders use Ninja Trader is for the price.  If you are already spending thousands of dollars to start day trading the last thing you need are more expenses.  The extra chart trader features and especially the ability to simulate in a live market environment is invaluable.

    email

    { 91 comments… read them below or add one }

    Chris May 15, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    Tradestation is definitely better, there really are no comparision in my Opinion, Ninja is a very difficult platform and hard to set up, difficult and hard to understand menus, it seems you got take a week to configure it and asking around in forums before you even can make it work properly, I really can’t understand all the hype about it, tested it, didn’t like it, with Tradestation there is no such troubble, easy to understand and no configuring needed. just start it up and trade, I don’t have time for poorly programmed trading platforms, I am not a programmer, not worth 1000 bux, Tradestation also have a lot more usable features than Ninja Trader does. Ninja has very poor support in fx since there hardly are no decent brokers offering Ninja with their feed, so you have to use a expensive subscription data feed,, sure it’s nice with a DOM and you can trade futures with it to, but I would rather use X-trader which is unrivaled for that purpose,

    Reply

    Marcello May 28, 2012 at 9:21 pm

    Chris I think that Ninja Trader is light years ahead of Tradestation for trade execution and they have gotten on the charting bandwagon a few years ago and every new version that comes out they make it better and better. With the way that you can trade on the actual chart on NinjaTrader and the market replay where you can replay the market at any time of the day like it was live… Tradestation can’t touch NInjaTrader in my opinion.

    I do still use TS for charting but think that NinjaTrader is the better option now with the extra features that TS can’t touch

    Reply

    Steve June 18, 2012 at 6:45 pm

    Well, I have just gone through the process of signing up with Tradestation, which includes funding the account before you can try their platform. What I have found is that for order execution, Tradestation is a nightmare. Sure there are lots of options but when all you want to do is place an at market order and have a stop and a profit target sent as well, you can’t then just click and send the order, you first have to go through the same click-click-click crap for every order. Either that or write macros for on click ordering and I’m not doing that.

    Their chart trading is nowhere near as good as Ninja, I couldn’t move my orders on the chart with the mouse, none of the cancel or sell buttons would work. If I was in a real trade I wouldn’t have been able to exit the position in a hurry.

    The charts in Tradestation do look better than Ninjas, but I’m sure Ninja will catch up there as well. If the poster above thinks that order execution is hard with Ninja, he should try Apex Trading’s similar platform (if he’s in the States). It is even better and easier than Ninja but some of their traders are arrogant bastards.

    The only advantage with TS is their combined feed and brokerage, but Ninja beats them hands down in every other department.

    Reply

    Marcello June 19, 2012 at 2:25 am

    Steve… agree with you 100%. Ninja by far is the better platform

    Reply

    Brenda August 21, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    Does anyone have experience with Think-or-Swim at TD Ameritrade? I believe you are able to trade in same screen with chart display. Also they offer simulation ability.

    Reply

    Marcello August 24, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    One of my traders Brenda was using TDAmeritrade and switched to NInjaTrader if that is any indication

    Reply

    Asian Wonder August 29, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Here are a few things you also need to consider that Marcello did not cover:

    1. Automated Trading – If you do a lot of automated, algorithmic, or any type of trading that is completely 100% automated, then Tradestation is much better. Ninja does not even come close when it comes to programmed automated trading. Tradestation uses a programming language called “easy language” and it’s not that hard to learn. (Advantage: Tradestation)

    2. Conditional Orders – Tradestation can do any type of conceivable order (aka, “set-and-forget”) that you can possibly imagine. Ninja has conditional order capabilities but nowhere near the capability of Tradestation. (Advantage: Tradestation)

    3. User Interface – I have spoken with the developers at Tradestation and their VP of product before and most of them do not trade. Therefore, they are developing a platform that they never personally use. This is why their interface is the most difficult user interface on planet earth. I have coached hundreds of new traders and I never had one trader be able to learn Tradestation in one day! You can learn how to trade on almost every platform on the market in one day except for Tradestation. Matter of fact, their mission in 2011 was to make Tradestation more “user friendly” because that is the biggest complaint from customers according to their staff. The engineers at Tradestation develop their platform from an “engineer mindset” instead of a “trader mindset”. Ninja is the other way around so they will always have a better user interface. (Advantage: Ninja)

    4. Multiple Asset Classes – You can not trade options on Ninja, only stocks, forex, and futures. On Tradestation, you can trade everything, which is cool cuz you don’t have to deal with multiple brokers. However, if you are trading options, you should be using the Think or Swim platform cuz they have the best options chain on the market as of 2012. (Advantage: Tradestation)

    5. Software Updates – Tradestation is a publicly traded company. They have to deal with a ton of compliance issues, so it takes forever for them to update a glitch in their software. Ninja is a smaller company and more agile and their updates come quicker and do not have to go through a bunch of hurdles. (Advantage: Ninja)

    6. Pending Orders – This is a huge factor that no one ever talks about. Your stop losses and all pending orders are sitting on “client side” (this means it sits on your computer) with Ninja and this is very dangerous! If your computer crashes or malfunctions or your internet is cutoff, then your stop losses will not get filled. All pending orders in Tradestation are sitting on “server side” (this means it’s sitting at Tradestation’s computers) so your stop losses will get filled because they have more redundancy and security protection on their servers then you do on your computer at home. This is the MAIN reason and the ONLY reason that I’m still using Tradestation and not Ninja. Otherwise, I would be using Ninja in a heartbeat. If you do any type of active trading, it’s obvious that Ninja was designed by traders for traders whereas Tradestation was designed by engineers for traders (Advantage: Tradestion)

    7. Cost – I also want to add that if you are worried about the cost of using either tradestation or ninja you are making a huge mistake. This should NOT be a factor when selecting a platform. The platform should meet your trading criteria, strategy, trading plan etc. The cost of the trading platform is just a business expense. My mentor used to pay $300-$400 dollars in commission per side. We are all paying less than $7/trade nowadays. The cost of trading is so little now that if you are complaining about trading software costs, data fees, commissions, etc. then you are wasting your time my friend. My friend was shopping for a Maserati ($100k+) one day and a guy told him you only get 8-9 miles per gallon. This is a very stupid comment. If a person driving a $100k car has to worry about the cost of gas, he shouldn’t be driving it.

    If you are a actively making more than 3 daytrades per day and can sit in front of your computer while trading then use Ninja.

    If you do not make more than 3 trades per day or you can not sit in front of your computer while trading then use Tradestation. This is due to the “client side” and “server side” issue I just talked about above.

    Paz

    Reply

    Marcello August 30, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    Paz.. thanks for the full run down. I have verified the pending orders, your number 6, and they are not placed on the client side. There are is a feature in NinjaTrader called volume trigger and if that is activated its on the client side but if you dont have that feature activated it is not with the client. It may have been that way in the past but I have verified this many times for my traders and it is indeed on their side not on the client side unless you have the volume trigger activated

    Reply

    Trader September 20, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    I’ve used both of them and in my opinion NinjaTrader far ahead of Tradestation.

    Reply

    Marcello September 29, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    Definitely agree.. Tradestation has gotten very heavy and outdated

    Reply

    Anna October 2, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Does anyone have any experience using Tradestation on two computers? This is potentially one advantage which hasn’t been mentioned above (one account can have more than one login I believe). I am researching how to do this at the moment and am trying to understand if you can have two separate PC’s or if you would have to have the software sit on a server which would be accessed by two separate workstations. A bit off topic but if there is any advice out there it would be appreciated.

    Reply

    Marcello October 2, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    Anna.. I use Tradestation and you cannot log into more than one computer at a time.. the simple fact that you have to pay for Tradestation monthly would cost you more in the long term. Tradestation if you are not using their overpriced brokerage firm costs $125 a month.. NinjaTrader is a one time monthly fee and thats it so even if you buy two licenses from Ninjatrader it will be cheaper in the long run than Tradestation.

    Reply

    Hugo October 3, 2012 at 3:52 am

    Ninja Trader is completely free to use on simulation AND when you are trading manually.
    You must lease or buy a licence when you need automated strategies in your LIVE trading.
    Good work Marcelo!

    Reply

    Marcello October 3, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    Hugo… you cannot trade live unless you have a live license with NinjaTrader. You absolutely need a license for live trading

    Reply

    Simon October 7, 2012 at 11:02 am

    Been looking at Ninjatrader lifetime one broker package option but wanted to ask if I don’t use one of listed brokers is it possible for me to open account solely for the ninja charting or do I have to pay more for a monthly streaming feed like kinetick??

    Reply

    Marcello October 7, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Simon…. you can use Ninja Trader for free until you go live. They don’t charge you unless you have a live account. You can sign up for a kinetic feed which I do recommend which is only $50 a month, but you can get a free feed from a broker until you go live.

    Reply

    Simon October 7, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Thanks for reply Marcello. So once I’m live on Ninja trader I can get a free broker feed? My etrade platform doesn’t seem to come up on broker option though..

    Reply

    Marcello October 7, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    Hey Simon.. thats actually incorrect.. you get a free ninjatrader license when you do not trade live. Once you go live you need to buy the license which you can purchase for roughly $180 for 3 months ($60 a month) or a lifetime license for $100.

    Reply

    Patrick Wong October 19, 2012 at 11:16 am

    I’ve used TradeStation for 3 years and find the platform to be stable, reliable and straightforward. Lately, I have felt their customer service has worsened. A good proportion of the people I’ve interacted with are unpleasant, hurried, fast talking people who behave as if the’re the only people that know something. I try to let it go. It seems to be a pattern for the TSS people now. It’s definitely an aggravation. About 1/3 of the time after I get off the phone with them, the thought of switching platforms crosses my mind. Unfortunately, I like the platform and it meets my needs. I’ve spent a lot of time optimizing my trading screens and I do not want to go through that process again.

    Reply

    Marcello October 19, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Patrick the only reason why I have kept Tradestation around is because its more stable when it comes to the internet connection, as I travel around the world I have become accustomed to internet problems and Tradestation for the most part stays connected when NT may cut off for a bit. Now that doesn’t go without saying that when there is a disconnected NT does load a lot faster than TS. I have found TS to be extremely heavy especially on computer memory, if you look at your processes you will find that there are 8 or 9 different processes for TS. Its tough to switch but I am in the process of doing it as well and I would definitely recommend NInjaTrader based on my experience with both platforms

    Reply

    Mads Tolling November 7, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    Mostly it sounds like Ninja Trader is the way to go. I had a question about the monthly streaming feed that Simon mentioned. I am about to open an account with deepdiscounttrading – their feed is from TT, which is free, but is it somehow not on a high enough level for trading futures? I also use Thinkorswim for stocks with TD Ameritrade – the question here is if I am better off using Thinkorswim for chart and Ninja for execution or should I really be signing up with Rithmic or Kinetic and spend the extra money?

    Reply

    Marcello November 9, 2012 at 9:05 am

    I think that you should be alright in terms of execution but using TD Ameritrade for futures trading is going to cost you a fortune. Trading eminis with a specified broker is going to be much cheaper in terms of commissions, I had two traders switch from TD Ameritrade to other emini brokers because of how much money it saves. I would recommend using Ninja for charting & execution

    Reply

    Mads Tolling November 9, 2012 at 9:13 pm

    Its great to hear from you Marchello, looks like I will sign up with Deepdiscounttrades, which offers commistions of $.50 plus CME fees and then using R|trader Pro. Reason for not using Ninja is that they dont provide server sided OCO. What’s your take on that and R|trader? You are right TD Ameritrade charges an arm and a leg… On another note I’d be curious to learn more about your day trade approach?

    Reply

    Roberto November 23, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Hello to all.
    I’m new.
    Using Ninja and am very satisfied. programming in C # is more difficult than Tradestation but allows you to do everything. I do trading on Stoks, using trading systems in my building. I wanted to start with futures Intraday automatically. Can you recommend a reliable broker.
    Hello
    Roberto
    Italy

    Reply

    Marcello December 31, 2012 at 7:49 am

    Roberto I would recommend Mirus Futures

    Reply

    John November 24, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    I’m looking at Ninja or Tradestation for options trading, on checking the Ninja website options do not appear to be available.

    Reply

    Marcello December 31, 2012 at 7:45 am

    I have not traded options so I’m not 100% sure if you are able to do that with NinjaTrader. I would recommend emailing Ninjatrader at support@ninjatrader.com. They would be happy to answer that question for you John.

    Reply

    andrew December 6, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    I have recently communicated with a commodities broker. The platform they use is NinjaTrader. I have been informed that NinjaTrader Lite is available for 0$ per month with conditions (not too harsh). A couple of things you do not get with NinjaTrader Lite is the ability to make trailing stop orders. I leave it up to you to get the details. It is always better to get this inforrmation straight from the horse. Good luck to all in your trading.

    Reply

    Marcello December 22, 2012 at 2:15 am

    Andrew that’s incorrect, when you get a lifetime license with NinjaTrader you get access to everything. Its a one time payment which is why there is no monthly payment

    Reply

    Matt December 27, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    How can I join this academy?

    Reply

    Marcello December 31, 2012 at 6:52 am
    Jonathan January 4, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    I used to use Tradestation many moons ago but not for execution..I don’t think.

    I liked the ability to set up custom filters and although I tried the “Easy Language”, it wasn’t so “easy” for me as I just don’t have the mind/patience to learn that stuff..I’ll give you the damn instructions, you make sure all the commas are where they should be..lol

    So, I would say the forums and the ability to find someone to code your idea were a huge perk with TS.Not sure if that’s still the case but I had a few custom indicators built which made for a really great spreadsheet.

    Reply

    Brian H January 8, 2013 at 12:13 am

    Marcello,

    Why don’t you get a “server” with (say) Amazon (AWS) and run NinjaTrader there? It will solve the internet connection problem, and it will also solve the computer-crash problem that Paz

    Reply

    Marcello January 8, 2013 at 1:39 am

    Brian you still need local internet in order to connect to the AWS server, you cannot connect directly to the server that way without internet.

    Reply

    Brian H January 8, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    Marcello, agreed; but in that scenario, NT doesn’t crash; you may lose the ability to see the NT screen only. If you trade based on established NT strategies, then nothing is lost.

    Reply

    Yeah January 17, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    “These two programs are the only trading platforms that all futures traders use.”

    Really… thanks, I needed a hearty laugh today.

    Reply

    Marcello January 18, 2013 at 3:22 am

    Well there are a slew of others that have cropped up over the years but I would still consider these two to be the best. Tradestation is the oldest of course and NInjaTrader would be the new serious player in the game.

    Reply

    brendan January 20, 2013 at 8:18 am

    Hi all.
    Can anyone tell me where i might find a charting software that contains Monthly & Weekly charts back to 1896……..on the Dow/Dow 30. I wish to see the broad view back to the beginning. Not the log scale charts on google, but proper software, scrolling charts unpon which i can overlay a study. Many thanks to anyone who may be able to point me in the right direction :-)

    Reply

    rob February 7, 2013 at 8:50 am

    Hi all,
    I have been and am still using Tradestation for 5+years but I am looking for a simulator to help w/my scalping techniques. I tried ThinkOrSwim (ToS) for a year but the software is still very unstable w/a challenging limited thinkScript programming language. The ToS simulator seems to have been abandoned by their dev team years ago since the limitations such as no alerts or file IO is still absent. The only positive I have seen is it may be the best option trading platform out there.
    Another advantage I see w/TS that was not mentioned above is the massive and I mean massive amount of EasyLang. code and support via the forums and on the net that is available. Their forums go back 10+years and will save you 1000s of $$$ just reading these boards. Also something that is overlooked and it is prob because of Marcellos trading style is that TradeStation is and has been free for me. The requirement is that you execute 50 per month or you trade a certain # of shares. They also recently won Barrons 2012 Top Awards in several categories one being “Best Trading Experience and Technology”.
    Having said all that I still am in need of a simulator (Im not referring to the ability to backtest strategies) so I am looking at Ninjatrader. The problem I heard using Ninjatrader for this is the simulator is only available once “you” start collecting the data on your machine, i.e. the simulator only supports replay capabilities from the moment you sign up. I cannot replay yesterday, the past week, etc. Which honestly seems pretty lame but if it is free maybe I will try it.
    Marcello since you have used both concurrently do you have 2 broker accounts?
    Rob

    Reply

    Marcello February 11, 2013 at 11:24 am

    Rob I would look into a platform called X trader. I am currently looking at the viability of trading out of simultaneous accounts which should be something that you could look into as well.

    Reply

    Mike Clark February 15, 2013 at 12:17 am

    Hello, I am still learning day trading although I am a pretty old guy with several careers under my belt. I opened an account with TradeStation a couple months ago, and they made me a promotional offer….. in place of the initial commission-free trading for 90 days, they gave me the charting/trading platform free for the life of the account as long as I maintain a $2500 balance. I mentioned this to a friend who has been using TS and paying the monthly fee, and she called her rep and they gave her the same deal.

    I do kind of agree about TS customer service, sometimes I have to wait for humans to get to the phone, and definitely some of the support staff are more knowledgeable and helpful than others. But they have been universally polite.

    Reply

    Marcello February 15, 2013 at 12:55 am

    It must be hard times Mike because I was offered the same as well.. Tradestation never used to offer free accounts but now they are offering it quite a bit

    Reply

    billy February 23, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    How much do you guys pay for futures data fees with tradestation now. All other brokers are free, is tradestation giving out live and historical futures data to keep up with time also?

    Reply

    Marcello February 23, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    Billy Tradestation normally costs up to $125 a month, $100 for the actual platform and then minimum of $25 a month for data (that can go up very quickly). This is why I recommended Ninjatrader rather than Tradestation because you can use the actual platform for free

    Reply

    Billy February 23, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    Marcello,

    I was thinking of calling them like you and getting the platform cost free unlimited with a balance of 2500 in my account and just paying the 25 dollar a month fee. Can you tell me who your sales rep is so I can talk to the same person?

    Thanks

    Reply

    David February 26, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    If the platform fee for TS can come down to zero then that is an incentive but what about the data feed ? If you are trading in the short term then getting the right data feed is make or break. Personally I use NT through a brokerage that feeds into ZenFire and couldn’t be happier with them, so don’t have direct experience with TS. However before I would consider moving I would want to see a thorough comparison in terms of speed of execution and any potential data lag. Focusing on getting the cheapest of anything may often provide you with a false economy.

    Reply

    Anssi February 27, 2013 at 4:10 am

    Hi,

    are there any free intra-day data feeds available to be used in simulation? The offer on NinjaTrader website seems to entitle for only two weeks of free data. Should I just go for Kinetick and pay $50 per month?

    Thanks!

    Reply

    Marcello February 27, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    Anssi you can use ninjatrader 100% for free until you are ready to open and trade a live account

    Reply

    massimo March 8, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    Hello, I carefully read the “war” between NT and TS. Everything is beautiful! but no one has talked about multicharts ….. I’d like to know what you think. thanks

    Reply

    Marcello March 8, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    I would consider Multicharts to be the better version of Tradestation, but it isn’t as popular Massimo. Word on the street is the guys that invented the easy language found in TS created their own platform and that happens to be Multicharts. I know a few traders that are using it and hear good things about it.

    Reply

    Paul March 27, 2013 at 3:52 am

    Ninja Trader has a lot of nice features, but it crashes a lot. I have a special Falcon Trading Computer with a lot of muscle, but Ninja bogs down my computer all the time and I get white outs and have to reboot the program A LOT!

    Reply

    Suleman April 25, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    Hey Marcello,
    Great site(s)!

    You can’t really say NinjaTrader is the best ’cause it’s free because it’s that’s only free while papertrading. For real trading you either have to pay the $995 for a license (which is about 40 months if you use the $25 TradeStation monthly fee, for comparison) or have to pay for a monthly lease.

    I prefer ThinkorSwim. And then Tradestation.

    I agree with Paul, NinjaTrader is a bit buggy, unstable and shuts down, which in trading is…bad! The Alerts are difficult to use also. And I still haven’t figured out the Zoom feature! :(
    Execution speed, which may depend on the broker, is a bit slower also.

    Reply

    Marcello April 25, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    Thanks for the note Suleman. Even if you had to pay for both I would still recommend NinjaTrader. The only reason why I still us TS is because its better with unreliable internet connections. TS actually charges a monthly fee outside of the $25 dollar fee but they have recently changed that for some user but long term NT is still cheaper since it is a lifetime license. I would actually use a platform like Multicharts instead of ThinkorSwim. The commissions with ThinkorSwim are astronomical in comparison to emini brokers. ThinkorSwim was designed as an options broker even though now they offer different features.

    At the end of the day I would still recommend NT.

    Reply

    Mikey June 1, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    Hey Marcello and all,

    Thanks for the info. I’m considering TS to trade futures. Just browsed the website, still confused about real cost of having an account there. Appreciate any and all feedback/answers:

    1) TS is both a platform provider and a broker? Who’s their clearing firm? Accounts reside with TS or
    someone else?

    2) Seems there’re 4 potential fees we need to pay, to trade on TS.
    a) Platform Fee, waived if a TS broker client.
    b) Monthly service fee of $99.95 if not meeting minimum criteria.
    c) Commissions, not appearing to be competitive at all.
    d) Data fees to pay varied exchanges. If I want to trade emini SP (CME), Dow (CBOT), Crude
    (NYMEX) & gold (COMEX) and go for the package deals, I need to pay $90 x 4 = $360, each
    month! Prohibiting, isn’t it?

    Please confirm, disconfirm and/or clarify. Thanks.

    Mikey

    Reply

    Marcello June 2, 2013 at 10:34 pm

    1. Yes.. their brokerages are sky high so would not recommend opening an account with them. They do have something new I believe where if you open an account with them and have the required funds in the account then you will be able to not have the monthly fee. Which in essence means that you get the account for free instead of paying the $125. That however is to be confirmed. I would recommend Multicharts instead of TS which is more robust and is only a one time fee. Their clearing firm is RJO Obrien
    2. A) This is what I mentioned above before it was a requirement to make 10 round trip trades a month. That may have changed.
    B) Same as mentioned above with the 10 round trip trades
    C) Commissions are absolutely atrocious.. I would put them at close to double of what you should be paying
    D) No data fees with NT (not sure about multicharts

    I personally don’t pay anything for TS a month but dont ask me how I worked that one out. Think I got a bit lucky lol

    Reply

    John June 10, 2013 at 3:28 am

    Well, having used both Ninja and TS I have come out strongly in favor of TS. Some of the comments above re order entry and charting on TS are just plain ignorant. TS charts are far better than Ninja, order entry for Steve above, is nowhere near as complex as he says in TS, in fact I have no idea what you are smoking Steve? Window management in Ninja is just plain painful, in fact it is just an undockable mess.

    Just to clarify the situation re platform fees. If you do 10 round turn CONTRACTS per month, the TS platform is free. That’s 10 contracts, which could be just one trade, NOT 10 trades. Obviously a lot of people complaining haven’t been using the platform that long. “Commissions are atrocious” What? Are you for real? TS costs me the grand total of $20 a month, that’s it, including feeds and all and does everything you could want it to do as a discretionary trader.

    Reply

    Marcello June 10, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    The commissions John I mentioned are not the exchange fee that you pay for its the commissions to enter a trade (round trip). I would agree with you that Tradestation has better charts but overall I would say that NT is actually better.

    Reply

    Dimitri July 12, 2013 at 7:41 am

    Hi Marcello,
    I am just curious about 1 thing.
    I have an account with IC Markets, I trade FOREX.
    All I want to use NT for is for certain volume/tick/price analysis software which only works on NT, TS and MQ.
    Since I won’t actually be using NT to trade but just for the signals, I can successfully only use the free version of NT, is that correct?
    Or would there be any benefit in me getting a lifetime license?

    Reply

    Marcello August 16, 2013 at 1:17 am

    Yes you just need a free data feed is all

    Reply

    John Kay August 28, 2013 at 12:10 am

    I used TS, and recently switched to IB. I use Ninja for futures and Option Vue with the IB data for options. Since IBs data feed is not up to snuff I also have to used a separate data feed provider for futures trading.

    I honestly, at this point, I think TS is the better answer for me. I’m going to give it a few months to see, but right now I see only one draw back for me……that being tradestations multiple account requirement. It just isn’t practical for my trading profile. With IB I have a single account, with portfolio based margin requirements. And I trade everything from one account. In return I pay huge fees for multiple solutions in order to get what I think is a minor improvement over TS.

    Reply

    Marcello August 28, 2013 at 2:28 am

    If you haven’t used TS before I would recommend that you would try NT. The only reason I still use TS is because I have been using it for over 10 years. Would highly recommend giving a NT a go.

    Reply

    Gloria C August 31, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    Hi Marcello,
    Above, I’ve read all the commentaries regarding NT &TS. Presently, I am using NT and its okeee, my biggest complaint regarding NT is that I can’t have a page with all my charts for the ES and another page with all my charts for the CL and then another page…..you get the idea. TS on the other hand had this feature but as you say, its not very user friendly and being Canadian they will no longer allow us access which rules out going back to TS for me. In the past, I have used E-Signal, they provide data feed to a slew of platforms and brokers (couldn’t find this again but I’m certain it also provides data feed to TS). The E-Signal platform is very user friendly, and through the years has greatly improved, there are less and less failures with price spikes. They have pages so that you can have one different market on each page and you can draw a trend line and not worry about having to manually extend it as is NT, or TS that takes numerous clicks to get a trendline in place. With E-Siganl the trend line extends itself until you choose to remove it. This week I will be installing a new trading computer and I am tossing with the idea of returning to E-Siganl although there is a monthly fee for their charts. Don’t really know what to do, I am out of TS that’s for sure so its a toss between Ninja and E-Signal, the real tie breaker is the trend line feature on E-Signal which extends, the historical data that can go back alot further and the one page per instrument. So, what say you, Marcello, it seems sooo confusing right now and I need to make a decision so I can install whatever on this new computer and get up and running. Thanking you in advance for all your feedback, much appreciated. Gloria

    Reply

    Marcello August 31, 2013 at 11:28 pm

    I honestly haven’t used Esignal at all Gloria so I wouldn’t want to steer you in the wrong direction but I have been supporting NInjaTrader for quite some time for all of our in house traders in addition to everyone in the training program. I’d recommend NT only because I know the features they have and are quite useful. Would definitely recommend them.

    Reply

    kaveh October 14, 2013 at 11:19 pm

    Marcello,
    I am new to trading concept.
    I made a plan to learn and practice trading, starting with S&P500 emini futures.
    I have started my studies while ago.Now I would like to practice paper trading, using live feed while I am studying .
    Could you please explain to me what steps should I take and in which order to set up my account.
    I’d like to use NinjaTrader as software but I am unsure about who should I get the feed from and what broker I should go with.
    Thanks much
    Kaveh

    Reply

    Marcello October 16, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    Hi Kaveh there are really a lot of options that you can use to open up accounts. Just choose an emini broker that provides a free trail and you should be able to get started right away.

    Reply

    Jim October 22, 2013 at 4:07 am

    Hi Marcello,
    Do you know if you are able to have Canadian stocks with the free Kinetick data? I did a quick trial and was not able to get it to work.
    Thanks in advance

    Jim

    Reply

    Marcello December 24, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Jim.. sorry my man I’m not that familiar with Kinetick being able to access Canadian stocks. But contact ninjatrader at support@ninjatrader.com and they should be able to answer that question for you.

    Reply

    Michael T. December 18, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    Marcello,

    NT can be FREE with live trading. I am doing it myself NOW. No fee whatsoever unless you want additional data (indexes and such, $17/month). Certain “features” such as the chart trader and automated trading are not available in the FREE platform, but you CAN TRADE LIVE, NO PLATFORM FEE AT ALL.
    10 times in this comment section you keep saying you have to pay for NT to trade live. YOU DO NOT. PERIOD. I don’t pay for it and I trade live.

    TS is way ahead as far as charting goes, but FREE is better than $260/ month +++(no account).

    Reply

    Michael T. December 18, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    kaveh,

    If you’re still looking for a broker, AMP FUTURES seems the easiest to use for NT, you can get a demo platform in 15 minutes that’s good for 2 weeks, then you can request another, and another ….. I traded on their NT SIM for 8 months before I went live. You can also trade live, FREE, with NT, if you can live without automated trading, strategies, and the chart trader, otherwise it’s $60/month (billed $180 per quarter).

    Reply

    Marcello December 23, 2013 at 12:17 am

    Would not recommend AMP futures for anyone. Lots of our traders have had serious problems with AMP. Would recommend Advantage or Mirus Futures instead. Much better customer service and less problems. CQG feed has been quite a problem for many of our traders.

    Reply

    Michael T. December 18, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    BTW, The NT SIM is THE BEST SIMULATOR in existence. It doesn’t give you fills you would not likely get in REALTIME, it puts you in line with other orders already entered. If anything, I think I get BETTER fills in REAL TIME.

    Most SIMS will fill you as soon as you put an order in on the BID or ASK, which, as we all know, doesn’t happen in real time (makes you look like a REALLY good, profitable trader though!) . You have to wait behind orders that were already entered before yours. NT SIM does that.

    OK, I’m done….. Thanks.

    Reply

    Marc W January 20, 2014 at 6:53 pm

    I’ve been using TradeStation for many years and recently wanted to give NT a try. IMO TradeStation in much better. I’ve had to pay a lot of money to get basic indicators I could get for free with TS. I wanted a simple moving average cross indicator that would send me email alerts with the averages crossed. That was about $600. And it doesn’t even work. With TS all your charts are neatly organized in Desktops. Each Desktop can have multiple worksapces to neatly organize your charts. With NT, your charts are all part of one workspace so organizing your charts is no easy task. As an options trader NT is basically useless. Tradestation is very strong in the options department. If you can trade options with NT I don’t know how and if it’s possible it is ridiculously hard to do. You won’t get a screen of options chains that’s for sure. If you are a day trader and only use a DOM that NT is good but TradeStation has a great DOM as well. The price of data is about the same for a full featured platform IMO. Once you add up all the data you want with one of NT data providers it’s going to be about the same as TS. What NT has that costs $60/mo with TS is the Matrix tool. Tradestations’ Matrix is $60 where you can do the same thing with NT’s version included in the platform. That’s a big plus for NT. But overall I’m not all that impressed with NT. People say it’s free which in concept is true, but if you have special indicators you want you’ll most likely have to pay a pretty penny for them. And maybe pay each month.

    Reply

    Marcello February 9, 2014 at 11:54 am

    Marc could be that you just started using the platform. For someone that is just getting started I would actually recommend NT over TS. I wouldn’t recommend NT for options as the platform isn’t really built for that. The DOM on TS I would say isn’t as good as the one on NT in my opinion. Most of our traders are now trading on the chart rather than on the DOM itself. Never heard of anyone having to pay extra for special indicators.

    Reply

    Alex S. February 8, 2014 at 6:05 pm

    Hi Marcello,

    You mentioned you had serious Problems with AMP. I also read some similar commemts in big mikes Forum but also without any details.

    MayI ask you to explain a bit more detailed the serious Problems you had?

    Before I decided To go with CQG I compared zenfire with cqg and I didnt read too much good from zenfire. I compared CQG (AMP) datafeed against xtrader(TT) which ins known to be fast and I couldnt figure out any difference so i decided To go with cqg.

    However I might change from AMP To another Broker before I Start live trading in Order To avoid troubles….

    Thanks
    Alex

    Reply

    Marcello February 9, 2014 at 10:47 am

    A comment box here really isn’t enough room to be able to describe exactly what happened. We plan on sharing it via The Day Trading Academy blog at http://thedaytradingacademy.com

    Reply

    Dustin Du February 17, 2014 at 10:46 pm

    I am very new to NT, and I am currently looking into learning the platform since it has a free sim version. I do have a few questions and I’d really appreciate it if anyone here could answer them.
    1) Is it true that with NT you can’t trade options? I am opening an account with interactive broker and I am pretty sure I can combine NT and IB together, does that mean I will have no problem trading options then?
    2) With the free NT simulator, is it real time? I downloaded the platform and has a few connection options (Kinetic EOD, Market Replay Connection and Simulated Data Feed). Can someone tell me what the difference is among these connection options?
    3) If I want to simulate with real time data as if I am trading with a live account on NT, do I need to pay for the Kinetic feed?

    Thank you very much!

    Reply

    Marcello March 16, 2014 at 8:17 pm

    1. Would have to double check with NT support to find out if you are able to trade with options. You can use the IB feed with NinjaTrader although I would not recommend using IB to trade anything other than options. Their commissions are very high for things like emini futures.
    2. The NT simulator is real time. Kinetic is real time feed and free end of day data, Market Replay is where you can download the data from previous days and replay them as if they were live (to be able to practice at night or weekends and watch the market as if it was live). Simulated data feed is just that a feed that simulates the live market.
    3. If you are going to trade live you do not need the Kinetic feed as the broker provides the feed or you.

    Reply

    yeshe February 21, 2014 at 2:27 pm

    One important issue has not been touched in detail.
    And i am looking for this for quite some time.
    Comparing TS and NJ or even other platforms like Trade navigator.
    What is the best platform to program your own strategies, to backtest strategies and to automatic trade the strategies.
    In other words we are talking here about the functionality of the program languages provided by the different platforms, are there restrictions?.
    for example:
    1 multiple trades per bar
    2 possibility of looping, recursive logic
    3 adding to positions (pyramiding) in automatic trading
    4 easy to learn the language and support

    please your expertise or references to other websites that answer those questions

    Reply

    Marcello March 16, 2014 at 8:06 pm

    I know that both platforms provide much of this functionality but you would need to check with them directly Yeshe. I haven’t done any programming as its easier for us to train our in house traders rather than try to automate.

    Reply

    rob February 22, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    Hi,
    Just wanted to give an update from my post a year ago. I decided to stick w/TS. I can tell from having read all the comments again, that Marcello is a big NT proponent focusing on cost as the #1 issue. Which from the start of this thread back in May 2012 has changed it seems for TradeStation. TS if you plan to do 10 trades a month is free. Think about that a moment 10 trades (10 roundtrips) in a month and if you scale in or out your position it may be basically 1 Facebook(FB) trade you are in that month. My brokerage fees at TS are .006/share with a minimum of $1. So if I buy 200shares of FB it costs me $1.20 when I sell those 200shares it costs me $1.20. I have no other fees. I also (along with others) over the past few years am able to get $500 in free commissions (offered at the beginning of the a new year) if I open up a new account which basically involved shutting one account down and opening it up again with a new #. If you are not making 10 trades a month then you probably do not need either of these products. If you are not the developer type or willing to learn Microsoft C# it is hard to imagine you would want to create and write custom indicators in NT. For TS if the custom indicator is not provided by default then there is a good chance it is in the support forums which date back 12+ years. If you are simply going to just use the standard indicators like MACD, RSI, MovingAverages, or BollingerBands then once again you may not need these platforms. Just simply look for the best brokerage fees you can find with a reputable brokerage firm.
    NT you have to pay a license fee it is not free and you will also need to sign up with a brokerage and pay their fees. At TS they are the brokerage firm so everything is handled by 1 company. We are talking here about live trading not simulation or demo trading. In regards to using NT w/Kinetic there is a price increase per month (up from $50/month) if you want to view more than 500symbols which trading in the equities world is a real possibility. I have automated scans of several thousands of stocks nightly looking for the chart patterns I want to trade. I also have talked w/numerous TS support guys over the years when I needed help, you can NOT do that with NT. Seriously think about the time and effort it will take to explain a problem in an email that you may not understand the cause of. TS support guys will remote onto my desktop to help me resolve an issue. I am not saying TS doesnt have issues but I feel over the past few years they have tried to become more competitive with their pricing and their products.
    Rob

    Reply

    Patrick February 23, 2014 at 11:21 am

    I am considering opening a Daytrading A/c with TradeStation to trade Fdax, Some trades by implication very short. Trading at Market could rapid/fast to instantaneous order execution be expected using Market Order?
    Does One Click Reverse Order facility exist on T S trading platform.
    Any views or experience much appreciated

    Reply

    Marcello March 16, 2014 at 7:49 pm

    I would recommend trading via NinjaTrader Patrick. You will find its much easier to use.

    Reply

    William February 26, 2014 at 11:49 am

    Hello,

    I live in Canada and already have a brokerage account. I am looking to day trade mostly US stocks with occasional Can stock trading. I am looking for a good charting program with data feed combination. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Reply

    Marcello March 16, 2014 at 8:21 pm

    Tradestation is a good option for trading stocks but for emini futures would recommend NInjaTrader

    Reply

    Peter Piper March 23, 2014 at 11:02 am

    Many people who stumble upon this page page may read just the first few paragraphs and may incorrectly assume that Tradestation still costs $125 month, when in fact this changed some time ago.

    I’d like to suggest editing the original post at the top of the page to reflect the fact that there is no longer a $100 fee for using the tradestation platform — as long as you maintain $2500 in the account, something you’re quite likely to do if you’re using the platform to trade.

    The only fees currently on tradestation are for the data feed, which varies, depending on which feed you want, and for the add-ons, Radarscreen and Portfolio maestro. ($59 each, but free if you trade at least 10 contracts a month or make 50 equities trades or trade 5000 shares).

    I am not promoting one platform or the other btw. I am not yet familiar with Ninja Trader, though it sounds interesting.

    Reply

    Marcello March 23, 2014 at 11:02 pm

    Peter you are incorrect… have spoken to many traders that recently opened accts at Tradestation and they are being charged the fee. That is only for special circumstances and it is only for certain accounts that is not for everyone.

    Reply

    gregg April 5, 2014 at 4:15 pm

    I have using TS for over six months before changing to NT. With the exception of the dome and market replay, TS is better…far better. I made the change due to commissions. I use IB and AMP with NT. I have experienced major stability issues with NT. Getting help is a horrible experience and due to the fact the NT is optimize for future trading, stock trading is a total mess. Many stock symbols and indicies have to be manually mapped in within the NT database. Why this database is not complete is a mystery to me. I am still attempting to get NT to help me get this done. I was told by a support rep at NT that the system does not utilize mult-cores—only one. TS can use as many as you have. There are so many things that TS does that NT does not do. It is simply not a stock trading tool. It is missing a scanning feature. It’s Market Analyzer cannot compare to Radar Screen. I paid for the mult-broker version . I trade about 1000 contracts per month. Amp will save me 450 per month in commissions and another 100 per month in data feeds. In less than 3 months, I would pay for NT. My IB rate are 1/2 that of TS. Over the year, I will save thousands. For now I will have suffer with NT. One good thing…I was able to transfer my indicators at no charge and they look better on NT. Another bad thing about TS. I was starting to get significant amount of slipage. I have not experience that at all with AMP’s CQG feed.

    Reply

    Marcello April 9, 2014 at 7:12 pm

    Thanks Gregg but I recommend to most of our traders to not open accounts at AMP. Very bad customer service and many of our traders have had issues with them.

    Reply

    Ardie April 7, 2014 at 8:03 pm

    Hi Marcello.
    I have been trading e mini S&P for 5 years ,I get my charts from Trade Station and Deal with AMP for my trading, do you know of any good Company in Toronto that carries Ninja platform so I could switch to.

    Reply

    Marcello April 9, 2014 at 7:09 pm

    Ardie you can purchase NinjaTrader as a Canadian citizen. You may have to connect the feed to Interactive Brokers though. Canada govt regulations state that brokers have to register in both Canada and the United States so many brokerages won’t take Canadian companies. You should be able to use Interactive brokers.

    Reply

    Jonathan April 15, 2014 at 3:02 pm

    NT is by far the best (agree with the above) – Also there is .net c# integration – the stuff you can do is limitless…

    Reply

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